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In this audio essay, the sociologist Matthew Desmond interviews a resident of the Water Street Mission shelter in Lancaster, Pa., about what makes it so unique. \u201cHere\u2019s a place that is treating people in their full humanity,\u201d Mr. Desmond says. \u201cIt\u2019s looking past their hardships, past their addictions, past their homelessness to see people\u2019s promise, to see people\u2019s beauty. And wouldn\u2019t it be amazing if that was the norm instead of the exception.\u201d<\/p>\n
Below is a lightly edited transcript of the interview. To listen to this piece, select the play button below.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Matthew Desmond: <\/strong>My name is Matthew Desmond. I\u2019m a writer and a sociologist at Princeton University.<\/p>\n I research and report on poverty in America. That work has taken me to a number of homeless shelters across the United States. Shelters housed in decommissioned military bases, old hotels, church basements, you name it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n Homeless shelters are a vital part of the safety net. But they have a mixed reputation, I think it\u2019s fair to say. Some are thought to be too strict, others too lenient. I wanted to hear from shelter residents themselves. So last year I visited Water Street Mission in Lancaster, Pa.<\/p>\n Water Street Mission is housed in an old cotton mill. It\u2019s this kind of giant brick complex. There are places to sleep. But they also have family rooms. They have kids\u2019 play spaces. And importantly, there\u2019s a medical wing where people can receive medical care, psychological care and even dental care during their stay at Water Street.<\/p>\n What I heard there surprised me. I think Water Street can be seen as a model, not only for what homeless shelters can aspire to but also for how we can rethink anti-poverty programs in general, making sure those programs are delivered in such a way that people feel affirmed, feel valued.<\/p>\n I want to introduce you to one of the people I met at Water Street. His name is James Costello.<\/p>\n Audio clip of James Costello:<\/em><\/strong> OK<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Matthew Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> So if it\u2019s all right with you, I\u2019d love to ask you a few questions and record those questions.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s fine.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> And it\u2019s really trying to elevate your voice on this issue.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> OK, well, I have no problem getting my voice up. [Laughs.] As my mother said, I got a very big mouth. [Laughs.]<\/em><\/p>\n Desmond:<\/strong> So James was born in Lancaster. He was 58 when I met him. He\u2019s a broad-shouldered man with a graying goatee. He uses a cane and a prosthetic leg to walk. He\u2019s nicknamed his prosthetic leg Peggy.<\/p>\n James worked as a cook for decades. Before coming to Water Street, he lived with friends and was saving up to buy a home from a co-worker. But \u2014<\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> My health went, and so did the hours of work, and money got real tight, real fast.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> And so you were cooking, and then you started to experience health problems. Can you tell me about that?<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> Basically diabetes.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> Did you lose your leg before or after you came here?<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> It was before I came here.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> Did you reach out to family during that time?<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> My family\u2019s reaching out to me all the time. OK. I was the fix-it guy. I was the guy they came to. So there was really no family to go to.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> You couldn\u2019t stay with your kids?<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> I had one son, and he doesn\u2019t want anything to do with me.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> OK.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> For his reasons, I had to respect him, though, on that and not push it. But I found a new family here.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> When you first arrived here, what was that experience like for you psychologically? I mean, how were you processing that?<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> I was scared to death.<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Desmond:<\/em><\/strong> You were scared?<\/em><\/p>\n Clip of Costello:<\/em><\/strong> Yeah, I mean, I never was in a situation like this. Some of the guys that had been here a while took me under their wing. Showed me the ropes, what needs to happen, what you need to do, what they\u2019re expecting of you. When I first got here, it amazed me. There was a gentleman that got a job. He started the next day. And all he needed was a pair of boots. Steel-toed boots. Within an hour he had two pair of boots, four pair of pants and three work shirts. From guys pulling it out of their own bags. The brotherhood here is unheard-of.<\/em><\/p>\n Desmond:<\/strong> The idea at Water Street is to address not just people\u2019s material needs, like housing and employment, but the whole person, including their emotional, even their spiritual needs. Water Street used to accommodate guests with pretty rough sleeping arrangements. They were these, like, wooden pallets the guests nicknamed boats. So this shelter switched locations to one where they had more room. The boats are now gone, replaced with single beds with full bedding.<\/p>\n Clip of <\/em><\/strong>Costello:<\/strong> That is like a hotel, and you know, you have so much dignity just being there. Yeah, you\u2019re in a room with 45 other guys, but you still feel like a person. You don\u2019t feel like cattle being shoved in and shoved out of a room. The meal is the same way. You figure there\u2019s probably between a hundred and three hundred people going in and out of that dining hall three times a day. The meals are always hot. And good.<\/em><\/p>\n Desmond:<\/strong> We desperately need more shelters like Water Street, and we certainly have the resources. A recent economic study estimated that if the top 1 percent of income earners in America just paid all the federal income taxes they owed, we could raise an additional $175 billion a year. That\u2019s 38 times what it would cost to provide a bed to every person experiencing unsheltered homelessness in America.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n When it comes to abolishing poverty or solving the homelessness crisis, America\u2019s problem has never been a lack of resources. Our problem has been a lack of moral clarity, moral urgency. Some might call it a lack of heart. But at Water Street, people experiencing homelessness are not just provided for. They\u2019re also listened to. They\u2019re believed in. Some might call that love.<\/p>\n When I left Water Street, I just couldn\u2019t help feeling how much of a contrast it was to all these other places poor people find themselves. You know, eviction court, parole office, even other homeless shelters often treat people experiencing hardship as numbers, as cases, as burdens. And here\u2019s a place that is treating people in their full humanity. It\u2019s looking past their hardships, past their addictions, past their homelessness to see people\u2019s promise, to see people\u2019s beauty. And wouldn\u2019t it be amazing if that was the norm instead of the exception.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n Thoughts?<\/strong> Email us at theopinions@nytimes.com<\/a>.<\/p>\n This episode of \u201cThe Opinions\u201d was produced by Jillian Weinberger with Derek Arthur. It was edited by Alison Bruzek and Kaari Pitkin. Mixing by Carole Sabouraud. Original music by Isaac Jones and Sonia Herrero. Fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Kristina Samulewski. Our executive producer is Annie-Rose Strasser.<\/p>\n The Times is committed to publishing <\/em>a diversity of letters<\/em><\/a> to the editor. We\u2019d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some <\/em>tips<\/em><\/a>. And here\u2019s our email: <\/em>letters@nytimes.com<\/em><\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n Follow the New York Times Opinion section on <\/em>Facebook<\/em><\/a>, <\/em>Instagram<\/em><\/a>, <\/em>TikTok<\/em><\/a>, <\/em>WhatsApp<\/em><\/a>, <\/em>X<\/em><\/a> and <\/em>Threads<\/em><\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n